Connie Durham
Imagine this, you and your spouse are sitting across from each other, but instead of a warm connection, there's a wall of silence. You both feel misunderstood and every conversation feels like walking on eggshells. You're frustrated wondering why you can't communicate effectively and you feel more alone than ever.
This is the reality for many couples today. Miscommunication leads to resentment, which leads to isolation, but it doesn't have to be this way. In today's episode, we're diving deep into what is called the care cycle from the book, Empowered to Love. It's this episode is from the Empowered series. It's the second one in the series. And my guest today is my son-in-law, Michael, and he's going to share his experience.
from a marriage retreat in wind shape. Okay, I'm gonna do a little bleep. Here we go. My guest today is my son in...
Third bleep. Let's give a little space. My guest today is my son-in-law, Michael, and he's gonna share his experiences from a marriage retreat at Wind Shape in Rome, Georgia, and the difference that the care cycle that we're talking about today made in his family. Stay with us as we discuss the five steps of the care cycle and how you can use it to create a loving, connected relationship.
Hey Michael, welcome and thank you for sharing today.
Michael (08:45.558)
Hey, Connie, thank you. Thanks for having me. Excited.
Connie Durham (08:48.942)
All right, you know, it's fun sharing with family because like I said earlier, we know each other so well, but I want you to tell the listeners a bit about you, you your work, what you enjoy, and maybe how long you've been married.
Michael (09:04.451)
Okay, so for work, do lawn maintenance, turf care, and weed control on lawns. So a little bit of backstory, I got an accounting degree from Georgia State. Can't really stand to be inside. So was doing this to pay my way through school and love being outside so much that I decided to give it a try, see if we can make a living at it, see if I could support a family. It worked and so I get to be outside all day, hot or cold.
It's wonderful. Hobbies, like riding motorcycles, dirt bikes, like flying RC airplanes, helping coach Matthew's baseball team, get to go on scouting trips with them. Kids are definitely a hobby. So I love spending time with them. Go to church on Wednesdays and Sundays, spend a lot of time with those people. It's great. I've been married to my wonderful wife.
who is your daughter, Melissa, for going on about to be 16 years, I believe, this year. So quite a long time. I feel like we're in a sweet spot in our marriage, which is drastically different than even a year ago. And so we just didn't know what we didn't know, and we didn't know how to communicate. And so that was the biggest thing we found from this intensive that changed our marriage completely.
And it's such a great thing because your blind spots are your blind spots. You don't know they're there. And it really opened our eyes to what we were missing out
Connie Durham (10:42.626)
I love that. You know what, you picked up on something I say all the time because it's something I've learned as I've gone through studying families and marriages. You don't know what you don't know until you don't know it one day. And that's not only for this, that is also for everything else in life because I'm way older than you. And when I was your age, I mean,
There's so many things that were just oblivious to me, but at this age, my gosh, you you do learn so much as you go through life. Now you said you're at church a lot. So Michael, tell me what the difference knowing Jesus and knowing God has done for you.
Michael (11:26.253)
wow. The Lord is the only person that can change a person, that can change a man. And who better to teach and train a man than the creator of that man himself? He's written his word down and his truth is in the word, the Bible. And we know more about God than the apostles did when they were walking this earth. And so getting into church, getting into the word,
The Lord has just worked many miracles in my life. I've seen the fruit of it in the way I handle things now. I committed my life to the Lord at 33. So was really late in life. Came to the end of myself through some challenges that the Lord put in my way to draw me to Him. it's been, life is not easier by any means.
But the way he equips me to handle the challenges are completely different. I've stopped blaming others for my problems, accepted responsibility, and in that responsibility accepted that I play a part. it's not how the situation occurs, it's how I react that changes everything. So the Lord has revealed that to me, it's been quite a blessing. Still growing, still sanctification happening every single day.
Connie Durham (12:52.878)
I'm going to take those words and how I react. And next month's podcast is going to be the reactive cycle. And so what we're looking at today is the care cycle, which is what everybody needs because we can't put the blame on our spouse. But you know, what happens is I call it the crazy cycle. I've been doing that as from another educational series that I've used that. But the crazy cycle is the reactive cycle. So if you've heard other podcasts that I've done,
The crazy cycle, it is the reactive cycle. And in this Empowered series, it's gonna explain more of what to do with that, how to get out of it, why you're in it. And today, as we look at the care cycle, it's gonna help you understand that no matter what situation you're in, if you're the spouse that's challenged or if you're the spouse that is having to deal with those challenges, we all end up in the reactive cycle.
And I've been married for many, many years. And even I, my husband and I are pretty calm about how we, do things, but if he gets a little, you know, to me, then I get right back. Right. So I realized that, and they say that, you know, you get a little, touch ear as you get older, maybe that's it. But, yeah. So.
That is the reactive cycle. When somebody speaks to us certain way and we feel their essence, we feel their frustration or whatever it is, and then we react in the same way and it doesn't do any good. So we're gonna be talking about the care cycle today with Michael and we're gonna understand how to take care of ourself and how to not be so reactive. So the problem is that many couples struggle to communicate.
We communicate in all different ways, don't we? Some are quiet, some are talkative, they share it all, but to communicate effectively, leading to misunderstandings and resentment. If we cannot communicate, if we do not listen to each other, then we're not communicating. And actually, Michael, you don't feel very important, right? If somebody's not listening, and to be honest, we have to work on listening because...
Michael (15:09.023)
Connie Durham (15:15.148)
you know, sometimes there's two or three people talking to us. And I remember back in my early Mary Kay days, they would always say Mary Kay Ash, the lady from Mary Kay Cosmetics, she had the art of looking straight at the person. and, know, there's like 10 people waiting around her, but she kept all her intention on that person. And that's kind of what we have to do as spouses. You know, when a kid walks up to you, a lot of times we're like,
We are distracted, I'm a distracted person, but we like hold our finger up, just a minute, y'all can't see it in the screen, just a minute, while you keep talking and looking at that person, right? So, all right, so what was your biggest struggle in your marriage before discovering the care cycle?
Michael (16:04.903)
So what led us to going to the wind shape marriage intensive was exactly what we're talking about communication. If you can't communicate in a marriage, every single problem goes unresolved. My method of dealing with unresolved issues was to stuff them down, ignore them. Because it seemed like every time we tried to communicate our worries or our concerns, it blew up. It was a terrible
argument that got nowhere. And so it was, I got to the point where I'm like, well, I don't want to go down that path. If we talk about it, it doesn't get resolved anyways. So I'd rather just not fight and argue. And I'll just stay silent and be miserable. And we actually both, Melissa and I, we're both doing the same exact thing. And that led to resentment, that led to feeling unloved for both of us. And that's
in a marriage that is not a good place to be. And so we reached out to our pastor, Steven Chambers, and said, Hey, can we meet with you and Christie? We're struggling in our marriage and we need help. So we met with them one night. They were, they prayed with us. We met for a couple hours. Their kids watched our kids while we were over there. And he said, Michael, you may not be comfortable with this, but I really would recommend this marriage intensive.
and if money is an issue because it's expensive. He said, I've got a donor that can meet you where you can't cover. so he said, don't let money be what holds you back. So Melissa and I both agreed. And we started the process to get to Windshade because we knew we needed help. We couldn't do it on our own. It wasn't working. And we wanted a better marriage than we had.
Connie Durham (18:02.35)
And you know, it makes me think we don't have to go all into this, but there were obstacles. Once you made that decision, there were obstacles weren't there?
Michael (18:12.238)
yes, there were many obstacles. Money was an issue and we were concerned about it.
Connie Durham (18:22.02)
You had your floors all of a sudden, your floors had to be replaced in your house.
Michael (18:26.5)
Yes, we had dry rot in the floors, which was something that had been happening for 20 years in our house we didn't know about and had to get completely the floors gutted, the floor suspension system itself, not just like, we want new floors. It was if we don't get new floor system, our house is going to collapse in the floor. Then we had my son the day the weekend before we were supposed to leave. My son had a seizure driving totaled our
one of our vehicles and the police officers thought he was fleeing from a traffic stop when he had the seizure and took off. So they arrested him. Well, we're supposed to check in on Sunday. If you don't check in Sunday night, they try to reschedule you and if they can reschedule it, well, you can get your money back. If not, that's a loss because last second called them up, said I have to report to jail on Monday with Preston because they've arrested him.
What are we going to do? Melissa broke down. She was in a state of hopelessness because she just saw like, it's always our marriage that sacrifices when things go awry. Well, turns out I talked to the police Saturday evening or Sunday morning. They showed up and said, we're not going to charge them with fleeing. Praise God. I all the men in my group at church Saturday night and I was like, please y'all pray.
Connie Durham (19:45.866)
That was my thoughts too.
Michael (19:53.221)
that God would move in this. I know the power of prayer. I know it works. Please pray. They all prayed. I got to call them Sunday morning with the great news. We were all praising the Lord for that. And yeah, we got there. We got there.
Connie Durham (20:08.526)
Well, I want to say one thing on your older son whenever he had that seizure, but he didn't just run. It's that when he went into a seizure, his foot hit that pedal and put him across the road into a field. Praise God there again that he did not hit anybody. Nobody hit him, but he didn't just flee. It's like his body stiffened up in a seizure and hit that gas pedal.
And there he went and then the police had no idea like, you know, whether he had run or what, nobody runs into a field. They run on the road to get away. So, wow, that covers it really, really beautifully. So you already said a little bit on this. So other ways that you think that being unable to understand that you needed self care and that care cycle. Are there any other ways that you felt like it impacted your relationship?
Michael (20:43.706)
Right.
Connie Durham (21:03.918)
How about like from day one you said this has been about a year, one year. And I've talked to people who said, I've been married 25 years, but only 10 good ones. you know, here we have hope, right? But other ways that it impacted your relationship.
Michael (21:09.559)
Yes.
Michael (21:17.917)
Yeah
Michael (21:24.951)
Yeah, through the counseling process, we unearthed some unresolved issues from our past. Things that Melissa would say would trigger what they call buttons. And one of the buttons for me was feeling not good enough, feeling unworthy. And when she would say certain things, she wasn't intentionally pushing these buttons, but they were getting pushed.
And I was connecting that to past relationships where I'd been hurt and then abandoned. And my brain just started going through the process, the reactive cycle. So I go in the crazy cycle, same thing, going through the process. Okay, she's going to abandon me. She's going to take the kids. This marriage is going to end in divorce. I mean, you just start going crazy in your head. But the care, the thing that care cycle does, the care cycle, by the way, is how you stop the reactive cycle.
you care for your heart, you go through the steps to recognize the lies that you're believing that are from the enemy, and you start to look and ask God for help. And He will reveal the truths through the word that you've studied that will lead you to feeling like a child of God, which you are, and you should be worthy.
Connie Durham (22:48.302)
So well said. So would so. And we're to be going through the five steps before we finish today. Romans 8 28 says, we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8 28. And the truth is that when we look back at things, never when we're in the middle of it ever, do we think, oh, the Lord is working. But we think we look back on things and we learn from them.
Michael (23:06.165)
Amen.
Connie Durham (23:18.156)
And I would say an important thing was that you're being willing to go. And that took some years before you're willing to go in God's timing. The opportunity came up, the best opportunity to really learn from that. And that is, again, I want everybody to remember, this is the book, Empowered to Love. I don't think anything can be as great as that intensive that you went through because you have professional.
people leading you through all that and they knew exactly what they were doing at Wind Shape. But, know, sometimes people get a book, mark through the book as you read it, empowered to love by focus on the family and read it again and read it again and pray a lot and read it again, right? If you can't go too in intensive. So without effective communications, couples can feel isolated.
They feel misunderstood and disconnected just like Michael's been talking about. So Michael, in what ways did you feel disconnected from your spouse? And sometimes I may ask a question you might've kind of covered it a bit. Ways you felt disconnected.
Michael (24:28.894)
Well, when you get in arguments in the reactive cycle, you're just looking for wins. So you're not listening necessarily to your spouse, to the other person. And that leads to disconnection because you feel unheard. You feel like they don't care about the problems you're having. They're just trying to resolve their issues. But the thing is you're both doing it.
you're just feeling like a victim while you're doing the exact same thing to your spouse. And so that leads to disconnection. they don't take the time to listen, when they are just waiting for opportunities to speak during the conversation instead of actively listening, you don't feel connected. And we were both doing that.
Connie Durham (25:21.166)
All right, so these are questions that were given to me. So how many years into your marriage did you realize, because there's somebody out there, I mean, they may have only been married a year or a few months, and they're already going through this, or they may have been married 30 years, and they're still going through this, and they've been hanging on. I think a lot of times this is a place where you have seen in the past days and years divorces after the kids get grown.
you know, because you never are able to resolve that. how many years in did you personally realize the big divide that was holding you back from actually enjoying life and enjoying your life and marriage?
Michael (26:05.075)
I realized that, well, mean, we're a year out of the intensive. So 14 years in, I realized there was a problem that we can't handle. Now, that's what led to the intensive. I would say a year, two years in, we were having these issues. We just didn't recognize what they were. We just thought we needed time to learn each other and grow together. But you have to deal with the issues that are at hand.
You're not just going to grow out of them. So yeah, it was like year one, year two was really hard. And then divorce for us is not an option. So we were going to, we, we realized early on that marriage is a commitment. If you leave your spouse and go to another spouse, you're taking all your problems with you. It's not, it's not going to be, it looks green on the other side of the fence. It's going to be the same struggles you've already put time and effort in dealing with.
So we were not gonna get divorced, but we also weren't thriving in our marriage. So we took accountability a year ago and really decided we're gonna work on this intently. We were so focused on the kids early on in life, trying to just get them grown and successful that our marriage kinda got put on the back burner.
Connie Durham (27:26.19)
All right, so I say all the time, I call it baggage, kind of like a loaded up suitcase, like maybe like eight loaded up suitcases with the clothes all falling out and you're trying to drag them all along and it's a heavy, it's so very heavy. So I use that all the time because we bring our baggage, somebody out there, like one girl that I was talking to that was having challenges, like, mean, she had like,
a terrible childhood, she had all these problems. We bring our things from teenagehood, from old relationships, from failures as adults. Some people don't get married till they're 40, right? And so maybe they've learned through that, or maybe they're bringing whatever all with them. so awareness, which is going to be one of the first care steps, being aware is one of those first things. Isaiah 41 10 says, so do not fear for I am with you.
Do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you and will uphold you with my righteous right hand. So as we go into the care cycle, the care cycle provides a structured approach to communication, helping couples reconnect and resolve issues. So let's take a look at the five steps of the care cycle.
And I'm going to kind of guide you through that, Michael, and you can pull up the things that you remember from that. So the first part is awareness. And we heard Michael is he shared, you know, becoming aware. Now he was aware a couple of years in, but awareness alone is not enough, right? Awareness is not enough. But what is your alarm? What brings your attention to, my gosh, this is just not right. This is not the relationship I want.
And a lot of y'all listening out there, maybe you've never witnessed a relationship that's peaceful and loving and kind and enjoyable, but you still want it, but you don't know how to get it. So the first thing is to be aware, recognize the triggers or signals that indicate something is wrong in your relationship. So what do you remember from the awareness that people need to hear?
Michael (29:46.969)
Yes, so the awareness is once your button gets pushed, it begins a reactive cycle. And the quicker you are aware of that, if you can get to the point where when you hear certain words, you are recognizing that the button is either about to be pushed or is pushed, you recognize it in for me, my face would get hot. My hands would get shaky.
My voice would get fluttery because I'm so frustrated that how dare you say that, you know? there's generally the most effective initially to become aware is physical. Now you will become aware so much quicker as you go through that it stops being getting to the physical. By the time your face is hot and you're getting agitated and you're getting jittery, you have
long past the button pushing, you are now reacting. And so initially though, those physical reactions in your body that you notice are how you realize and become aware that you need to have a care cycle.
Connie Durham (30:56.92)
Wow, okay, so I wanna say to anybody out there listening, what is it? And we can only answer for ourself and we can only have a care cycle for ourself. But if we learn this, even if we're by ourself in the marriage of figuring this out, if one person can do this care cycle, maybe you can't get your spouse to do it yet, but if one person can do this care cycle, then.
they can stay calm and they cannot react to what all's being said. I have a book and hey Michael, I had Melissa use this one time. It's called The 100 to Zero or like 101 % and it is where you, there's something going on. It's like reactive, it's crazy house and
This is before I knew about this book, Empowered to Love and Reacting Like This, but it is where no matter what goes on, you give 100%. Like don't expect anything, zero. Don't expect anything from your spouse. You give 100 % and don't expect anything because a lot of times reactive cycle is created by expecting.
expecting a certain thing, expecting like your spouse to act like your mom or your spouse to act like your dad, know, according to which sex you are, of course, but it's like, go ahead.
Michael (32:17.568)
Absolutely.
Michael (32:28.185)
I'm glad you're bringing this up because in the book they kind of touch on this what you're talking about the hundred percent rule you give a hundred percent even if your spouse gives zero percent guess what your marriage is going to be fifty percent better who doesn't want a fifty percent better marriage and it requires no expectation on your end
Connie Durham (32:48.94)
And that's it, because you have no expectation, you don't become as reactive or fussy. And you know, I teach other personality styles and some people, when emotions happen, some people react in anger. If you react in anger automatically, we all get mad sometimes, but if you react, that's your top emotion, then remember the old thing about counting to 10? I think five might be better, right? But five slowly.
thinking, taking a breath before you react. But with the personality stuff, the personality styles, anger is one. Another style is stuffing it. know, stuffing it. Quiet, no emotion, not saying anything. But they're feeling it, you just don't know it, and they're stuffing it. And they're just taking it all in until one day they're like, I'm done, right?
People react to things differently. So sometimes they're a blank face and there's nothing, but there's still something nevertheless. So I love that. And so the hundred percent principle, you know, that, that is something that anybody can implement if you're really having trouble implement that and don't expect and automatically within a week things get a little bit calmer because you are no longer reacting. Yeah.
this is so good. You're doing good, Michael. So good.
Michael (34:15.893)
And your spouse, your spouse will notice you changing your ways. So it doesn't take two people to break this reactive cycle. It takes two people to continue the reactive cycle. takes one to break it. And your spouse will start to notice that. And that will be an opportunity for you to give a testimony of, this is what I'm using. How about you could try it too. And we could work on this together.
Connie Durham (34:29.464)
That's right.
Connie Durham (34:41.496)
That's terrific. So well said. So let's go back to his alarm. His alarm was what? Feeling his face turning red. He started feeling a little shaky inside. Whenever I describe that, I say I'm getting so mad I could blast off into orbit.
Michael (34:59.605)
My whole body would get hot. It starts in your chest. You start feeling that heat coming. You know it's there.
Connie Durham (35:07.028)
Yes. OK, so what is your alarm, people? What is your button? What is your spouse's button? Pay attention. Number two, accept. All right. What feelings do I need to accept? All right. So accept your feelings and take responsibility for your part in the situation. And this is what Michael's talking about today. First, we have to accept because we're the only person who can step it up.
until our spouse, they were lucky and they got to go together, but we don't always get to do that. So seven general emotions that come up when we start to really get fired up joy. Well, not, not joy and not joy, but seven, seven general emotions overall we have joy. Yeah, we all want that. But then there are, there's fear, sadness, anger, shame, guilt or loneliness. Hey, I object.
There's only one positive word in there.
Michael (36:05.096)
Mmmmm
Connie Durham (36:06.472)
Yeah. So, so we're on the next step, which was accept. So how did things change when you started to accept that there were challenges?
Michael (36:21.618)
The first part of accept is exactly what you said. It's you own it. You own a hundred percent of the 50 % problem that you have created. And so you in that have control. And generally it's not your spouse that has broken your heart, but it can happen. There are times where a spouse can intentionally break your heart, but they cannot heal your heart.
that is your job. Only you can heal your heart. Only you can care for your heart. So accepting the responsibility of doing that is the next step of this care cycle. And you get to realize that only you have control over your emotions. Only you have control over what comes out of your mouth. And the Bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So the care cycle is about dealing with right here, the things that you can control and
accepting the things you can't.
Connie Durham (37:24.11)
You know, I remember during some of those years, like you both refilled your own cups, you know, and that's the thing is that people, that is part of self care is how do you refill your own cup? know both of you are a little bit alike actually, if you think about it, you hung out with your friends a lot. In the early days too, when you first got married, you hung out with your friends a lot. And Melissa did the same thing. She...
Michael (37:42.225)
Yeah. Yeah.
Connie Durham (37:51.182)
hung out with her friends, had lunch, some laughing, some refueling, no stress, right? And then whenever there was children, she did play dates with other adults. So somebody out there might need to hear that. You could do a play date with somebody with kids that are around the same age. But sometimes you have to fill your own cup and you have to figure out what that is that fills your cup, right?
Michael (38:17.137)
Absolutely, and always the Lord is the best way to fill your cup. If you don't know the Lord, I highly advise that you give your life to Him. He is the only one that can relate to our problems personally. He walked this earth, He lived here, He dealt with the temptations and challenges we do. the Lord is the first way to get your cup filled. You can use also trusted friends and relationships. That's a great example of hanging out with your friends, relaxing.
Just anything you can do to tone down the situation and tone down the tension in your relationship is dealing with yourself. So if you're not happy and you're not loving yourself, you can't give what you don't have.
Connie Durham (39:02.518)
Absolutely true. Yeah, and as you talk about the God change in your life, Michael, that gives anybody and everybody hope because, you know, walking in the Christian faith and, you know, it's a heart change. And an example of what you said as, you know, being able to have to take care of ourselves in the book, it says, my heart.
My job, my heart, my job. But when God comes into the picture, know, your chances of finding that marriage that you really wanna have is like a thousand percent more, a thousand percent, but you've got to take a step out to get there. Philippians.
Michael (39:49.602)
Yes.
Michael (39:55.481)
Another thing I want to add real quick, you talk about my heart, my problem. They did this awesome illustration. They had a stuffed animal teddy bear, and they were talking about relationships. they were in the, we had two counselors and one was acting, they were both acting as spouses. And she brought up this great illustration that when we get married, we expect our spouse to now take care of our hearts. we, you hear people say, you have my heart.
I'm giving you my heart. So you give it to them and how good are they going to be at taking care of your heart? They don't know it 100%. So they damage it and then you take it back out of frustration. And then you're like, okay, I'll give it back to give them one more try. And then you take it back. The problem is you should never give them your heart in the first place. It is your heart and your job and responsibility to take care of your heart.
Connie Durham (40:50.72)
Okay, totally. And of course, when God comes into that play, then he changes our heart. He makes it more loving. It doesn't mean we never have any problems. We still have, you know, I could go into other areas, my own problems actually. Philippians 4.13 says, can do all things through him who gives me strength. Yes. All right. So Michael, let's go to number three. Allow. This is a third step. God.
Michael (40:57.186)
Absolutely.
Connie Durham (41:20.65)
Will you join me? You know, that makes me think about God being our co-pilot, but we really want him to be our pilot, right? Invite God into the situation seeking guidance and support. What all did they share with you on that?
Michael (41:28.91)
That's right.
Michael (41:35.458)
Yeah, so allowing is allowing someone outside of yourself to give you aid. God is great at that. He created you. He knows you 100%, knows the number of hairs on your head. I don't know how many hairs are up there. He does. So how much better does he know me than I know myself? Another thing you can do for the allow step if you don't have a relationship with God,
You can use a trusted friend and the point they made with trusted friend is if you're going to allow someone into your marriage, into these intimate disagreements that's outside of your marriage, you need to pick a person who is for you and for your wife or spouse. If they are not going to be on the defensive for your spouse,
They are not a trusted friend to allow into this space and allow to speak truth into your life. You need someone who's for both of you guys and loves you both.
Connie Durham (42:44.248)
And you know, I call that middle ground because most of the time we see things only from our perspective, how it looks from me. So from your perspective, from your spouse's perspective, there's actually a middle ground and middle ground is in every area of your life. I can't even go into it. There's so many, everything's about middle ground. Success is in the middle ground where you meet in the middle.
whether it's politics, marriage, figuring out how you want to discipline your kids, meeting in the middle, everything is about meeting in the middle. So, and definitely if you lean into someone who talks down about your spouse in a non-loving manner, it's kind of, I always call that.
Actually, Michael, I've realized that, you we all have spiritual gifts from God and I feel like mine is, um, um, oh, now I'm going to forget. No, no, my, my gift is loving anyway. Even now I was watching, you know, criminals on TV and it's like, I have this, God has given me this where I love people. I see the person, I see the little kid.
And as I look at maybe somebody who's a criminal even, I look at their face and I see a little boy or, or, know, it's, or I say a little girl, but I'm sorry, but most of the time it's guys that are on there somehow. I don't know why that is maybe because guys have more testosterone or something. They're a little more aggressive, but you know, I see the, these men on the news and I see a little boy who probably wasn't taken care of or wasn't loved or.
you know, even kids who weren't fed or, you know, taken care of and I see a hurting child instead. And I think that's, you know, that's what you want from somebody because they see from the middle, they see both sides, they present both sides. And I have to say, sometimes it gets me in trouble, even with my husband. He's telling me something and I'm seeing both sides and he's like, he's getting a little irritated about me seeing both sides. You know? So, yeah.
Michael (45:03.676)
Yeah. Also in the allow, you're allowing these people to tell you when you're wrong. You're allowing these people to speak truth into your life. For instance, with God, like Michael, I'm feeling unloved, Lord. Well, Michael, you know your wife loves you. She loves you dearly. She's my child. So I know that she overflows that love into your life. You're just believing a lie that's untrue.
You're just aggravated in the moment and it's leading your mind to be confused. In fact, they talk about in the aware step, they say your mind when your buttons are pushed is now a child's mind. does not work. It does not work like an adult brain anymore. You cannot think rationally. So you need to step back, have this care cycle so you can get back to maturity and be right with your spouse.
Connie Durham (45:44.876)
Ooh, that's right.
Connie Durham (45:56.846)
That's a great point and buttons are really important. We all use that word man. Don't push my buttons, right? Yeah. All right. Number four is a 10, you know, so we've become aware and let's see. I would have to look at my notes. We'd become aware and we accept. Thank you. Then we allow then we must attend.
Michael (46:02.427)
Yeah, that's right.
Michael (46:14.055)
We accept.
than we allow.
Connie Durham (46:22.472)
So we're going to reflect on feelings and desires and assess the reality of the situation. It takes a minute. You know, if you got money problems, you got to stop and figure out why am I having money problems and how can I fix this? It's no different with your marriage. So what am I feeling? So people need to stop and think, what am I feeling? What do I want right now? What is the truth? Which we really usually can't see that part.
Am I turning up the volume in some way? Is it me? Am I doing it? So what did they share with you on attending your feelings, really? Attending, attend.
Michael (47:03.897)
Yeah. So the attend is the most important step out of this cycle. It's the one that will take the most time to go through because this is where most of the action is. identify the feeling you're aware you're feeling this thing. Now, a part of identifying the feeling is identify the button that caused the feeling for me. it's rejection, abandonment. Those two are pretty close together.
When I feel rejected, feel like abandonment is coming right behind it. So once you feel that, you identify the feeling, you say, okay, need a care cycle. Is this familiar or historical? Or have you felt this feeling before? This is where I had the most breakthrough in the counseling session was, is this feeling historical? I was tying.
the way Melissa was acting, which historically lined up with the way one of my exes was acting, which led to separation, led to children being taken. And I was, I was feeling the fear of that moment in the past, projecting it onto my marriage currently, and being fearful of what could happen in the future. And so that's, that was huge.
That was a huge part because when a button's getting pushed, it generally is a historical feeling. You're not thinking about what they're doing right now. You're thinking about, okay, this button was pushed in the past and it led to this. This is where we're going again. Here we go. my gosh, I am worthless. I am unworthy. It's happening again. Well, no, it's not happening again. You have an opportunity to change it this time. Then next is
How do I feel right now? And then what do I want the Lord to say to me? This is key. What do I want the Lord to say to me? Michael, you are my child. I know the plans I have for you. They're plans for good and not harm. Before the world was created, I knew you. I know the hairs on your head. I sent my son for a rescue mission for you.
Michael (49:30.259)
Of course, I love you. You are not abandoned. You are not unworthy. You are my child. And so then, what lies am I believing is the next part of the attending. So what lies am I believing from the enemy because the enemy is master of lies. And when you hear those lies, they don't sound like lies. They sound like truth. Because he is when he when the devil lies, he speaks his native language that he is the best liar.
ever created. So I'm believing the lie that my wife is rejecting me, my children will be taken from me. This is a specific conflict I'm speaking of. So I'm going through what specifically I believed at the time. And then the next part is after what am I believing? What is the truth? What is the truth of the situation? And
Connie Durham (49:59.842)
Mm.
Michael (50:27.616)
The key to this part is God's Word. What is the truth? Who is my wife to me? How does my wife actually love me? She's put through years of struggle and is still there, so she's not going to abandon me. Why would I think that? Well, because I'm fearful. But when you stop to slow down to see the truth, you look in the past, you look at how your spouse has shown up.
You look at the commitment she has made and you've come this far. So it's never hopeless. And then the next part of that is what else is going on right now? And this part I heard a friend Alfred, he gave this great demonstration on anger, anger. know anger is a sin. He said, but we're walking around agitated 90 % of the time.
The anger is just the cream on the top that rises up when we get into conflict. So we're already agitated. So what's going on right now? I'm worried about work. I'm worried about customers that I haven't responded to. I'm worried about how Preston and Madison and Matthew and Sarah are doing in school. So you've got to slow everything down and take your time to realize that.
This conflict is not about necessarily this conflict is about this conflict and this issue and this issue and this issue. And it's just exploding because the straw that broke the camel's back has been laid. And then.
Connie Durham (52:05.582)
That's a gigantic point, Michael. So I really want to point that out. That right there was the route. It's not usually the one thing or the person in front of you. is all the stuff, all the stuff. Did I use the suitcase analogy before we got on or after?
Michael (52:28.574)
No, I don't think so.
Connie Durham (52:29.75)
Your young mind, you could tell me why not remember. All right. So I use the analogy because I always call it baggage. We have baggage and we have today's stuff and tomorrow's stuff. And I don't know about you or whoever's listening, but when I get too many things stacking up on me, I'm just not quite as congenial as usual, you know. But, know, Michael, anger, I wouldn't really say is a sin, but acting on the anger.
Michael (52:32.489)
Yeah.
Connie Durham (52:59.15)
Because even Jesus got angry, there are things that we can get angry over. So it's not really the sin is acting on the anger, but the emotions come up and we like can't help ourselves because we just can't help it. And it is learning to contend with that. And that's what y'all learn through this care cycle was how to contend with emotions.
Michael (53:19.742)
Yeah.
Your actions start in the mind. That's why the Bible is clear. Take every thought captive, hold it up to the truth of God's Word is before you get angry and you react, you have a thought. And that's what this care cycle, the aware step is about. It's about getting so good at realizing a button has been pushed that you catch it at the thought before it ever gets physical, before it ever your heart rate starts going.
Connie Durham (53:46.222)
Got it.
Connie Durham (53:52.632)
And my baggage analogy, I just realized I didn't actually share that, was I saw it in a cartoon one time and I thought, that is so true. It is like, you you've got seven suitcases behind you and the clothes are all leaking out, you know, like stuff sticking out all the suitcases and it gets heavier through life and heavier and heavier as you pull this load of baggage that you have not dealt with. And that is what puts people in this whole
crazy cycle, this whole reactive cycle and until they stop and figure out these things and attend to it. And like you said, this is the biggest time because sometimes you have to start digging through that baggage because I've got this going on right now, but I had that going on that year and that there and that there. And when I was a kid and so some people have to dig real deep.
Michael (54:25.802)
Mm. Mm.
Connie Durham (54:49.186)
Sometimes we just took a wrong turn and we've gone in the wrong direction for 10 years, but other times it just goes so very deep. all right, so let's go to number five. But first I'm gonna say Ephesians 3.20. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask.
Michael (55:11.868)
hang on. We didn't finish a 10. Let's finish a 10 real quick. Sorry. I got sidetracked. So the next step is what is the truth about my spouse? We kind of went over that. I discussed that a little bit. So what is the truth about your spouse? And then the last step is what am I wanting? What am I wanting out of my marriage? What am I wanting out of this relationship? And when you focus on the want, it helps to drive you
Connie Durham (55:16.029)
okay, sorry.
Michael (55:39.593)
to get there. If you don't know what you want, you don't know where to head. So knowing what you want is critical. we typically we all want joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, a self-control goodness, and know, all the fruits of the spirit. But joy, I think, is what we all want in a marriage.
Connie Durham (55:59.438)
And so how do you find that? Because aren't you looking like for a mentor, an example? I mean, I God's word, that's the biggest one, but like a mentor or somebody, a couple, sometimes we look at couples and they look all perfect and then they're not. Social media.
Michael (56:15.077)
yes.
yeah, Melissa spent 14 and I spent 14 years of our lives showing up to church with smiles on our faces. and, and an hour out an hour before that we were arguing in the car over something stupid. So yeah, a trusted friend, a counselor can be great as long as they speak truth. The key is truth. Don't talk to someone who's just going to agree with you because now you're just a
Connie Durham (56:24.152)
Beautiful people, yes.
Connie Durham (56:45.038)
That's right.
Michael (56:47.844)
uplifting the lie and strengthening the lie. You need someone that's going to say, that's not true. What you're feeling is not accurate. It's just fear. So you need a trusted person that's going to call you out. Preferably someone that's dealt with this experience before and has come out on the other side. Yeah, counselors are great for that.
Connie Durham (57:10.382)
They're not gonna talk down about your spouse. They're gonna ask questions and they're gonna try to help you find answers. Yeah. Okay, so Ephesians 3.20. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than we ask or imagine according to his power that is at work within us. Here we go to number five, at.
Michael (57:32.731)
Hmm.
Connie Durham (57:36.108)
Determine your objectives and ensure your actions align with your values. You know, some people have different values. Some people haven't learned, you know, good values that contribute and pour into their life. You know, like the Bible does that. And so, you you were raised in the church, Michael, it's like we're, we've learned values, what is absolute right, what is absolute wrong.
but we live in a world that is a little confused sometimes these days, but there is absolute right and absolute wrong. I like to say a lot of times a word that replaces many other words is the word respect.
Michael (58:16.698)
yes.
Connie Durham (58:17.774)
And I, you know, like whether I agree with people or I don't, or I'd like them or I don't, it's like, I just, I treat everyone with respect. And I heard my pastor say, oh, one day and I was like, Oh, write that down. And it said, I respect you, not you personally, but I respect you because of who I am, not who you are. Yeah. Like so.
Michael (58:43.866)
Hmm.
Connie Durham (58:46.86)
There are people out in the world who I would still treat them with respect because of who I am, but I don't really agree with a lot of things for them, right? But respect is a major word. determine your objectives and ensure your actions align with your values. So what is your goal? You kind of started on that.
Michael (59:09.198)
Yeah, so your goal is to have an exceptional marriage. You want the best for your marriage and the way you act and show up is huge. You are only in control of yourself. And once I realized that, it was quite easy to stop blaming other people for things. They're just simply reacting to my bad reaction, which leads to another bad reaction.
This is that reactive cycle we get into. And so the way you want to act if you want a healthy marriage is, I look at it this way. I don't see my spouse for what she has done or what she is doing. I try to see her for the potential that she has. I know she loves the Lord and I know she loves me. I know she loves my children. So if for instance,
dealing with disciplining a child and she interrupts. I know that she's not doing that because I'm wrong. She's doing that because she wants what's best for the child being disciplined. And she thinks that maybe she has value to add there. So, well, and it's so hard in the moment, Connie, it's so hard to deal that because you're already
Connie Durham (01:00:21.678)
That was very nice way to put that.
Michael (01:00:31.916)
dealing with an issue, you've got your mind focused on it and any interruption or distraction is going to throw that off.
Connie Durham (01:00:39.314)
Hey, Michael, and believe it or not, our with Jeff and I, I am the disciplined person. So I've had that happen too, where I'm like, don't even interrupt me here, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Michael (01:00:51.704)
And sometimes you can say that with love, like, hey, I'm raising a man. I'm raising your son to be a man. Please allow me to do that. But if you just say, hey, but out, I'm dealing with it. Well, that's you're pushing buttons now. So you want to deal with it. Basically, the golden rule, you want to deal with people how you would like to be dealt with. If you don't want to be told, hey, but out, this is me. I got this. Then don't do it.
But it is very challenging. Your child brain takes over and you say some pretty stupid and childish things at times.
Connie Durham (01:01:28.792)
And the truth is you want to be unified as parents. And you really have to talk about all that kind of stuff and what your goal, we just said goals, what your goal and your expectations are on that. So you have to talk about it and there again, meet on middle ground.
Michael (01:01:32.384)
absolutely.
Michael (01:01:37.602)
Yes.
Michael (01:01:45.685)
If you're not unified as parents, kids see the division and they will manipulate and use it too. We had to have a conversation with Matthew about going back and forth between us and manipulating us against each other. And I said, son, I know this is, this is going back to the truth. I know you want mom and dad to love each other, but the way you're going about handling this situation.
is you're tearing our relationship apart. And I know that's not what you want. You just want to get what you want. But this is the result of the actions that you're doing. And once I told him that, he stopped doing it completely. He was even dumbfounded that he didn't even realize that's what he was doing. And he does love us. And he changed doing that. But yes, being unified is critical in a marriage, especially when you're dealing with children.
Connie Durham (01:02:41.356)
Okay, so let's look at how to create goals. How to create for people who, I mean, this does take sitting down together to do it, doesn't it? You know, how to create those goals. How do we go about, can I act with integrity? You know, how do we create goals? Because at the beginning we said, you you don't know what you don't know till you don't know it. I mean, till you don't know it. Till you know it. You don't know what you don't know till you know it.
And so at this point, after we've gone through these other four steps, you're realizing you've been living a life that you didn't really want to live, but you didn't know how to get out of that cycle. But now you know, and now you need to tend to it. And so how do we create those goals for what we want in our marriage?
Michael (01:03:32.546)
Yeah, that takes time between you and your wife. You both need to be cared up so that you can respond to each other in a loving way. So that's why this care cycle is critical. And setting goals generally is what they call a work talk. You are trying to accomplish a goal that you, maybe you alone or you both want. But the way you do that is you sit down with love.
And first thing you say and think is, if this starts to get into a reactive cycle, we're just going to walk away and come back when we're both carried up and calm. You cannot, you cannot set goals unless you're in a place of love and you're believing truth. If you're believing lies, it's going to set you off. going to buttons are going to be pushed. And when that happens, you need to walk away until you get to the point where you can have a care cycle sitting there in five seconds and come back and show up well.
But setting goals is something you sit down and you do together. You hear each other out. You may not have the same goals, but you can come to, I don't want to say compromise, because that seems like a loss, but you both want what's best for your family. And that may not be what you personally want at the time. And your spouse can help you through that to realize maybe this is a better direction to go.
Connie Durham (01:04:57.806)
Well, you I have a free gift on my webpage, theextraordinarymarriage.com and it is called the chemistry of lasting love because the truth is that couples need at least 15 hours a week together. That might be sitting on the couch together, watching TV. It might be taking a walk. It might be eating dinner together, doing the dishes together, chatting as you're getting ready for work in the morning, but.
15 hours in a little date night here or the kids go to bed and you're watching the movie. Having that time together, having that time to talk and inside the chemistry of lasting love is a guide and a quiz that helps you understand what your spouse needs from you. There are 10 basic needs. I'm not going to go into here, but understanding what your spouse needs from you and them knowing what
you need, take the top two on that. And it's going to give you a direction of what's most important to your spouse, because people are all different. And one person needs a lot of attention and touchy touchy. And another person's like, don't be touchy touchy, right? So understanding those means, like adventure, like one we would have in common, Michael, is adventure.
And usually that's the guy thing is having adventures together. Like you're very adventurous and, Jeff is not as adventurous. He goes along with me because that's important to me. And, that's been easy for us because he's easy. That's why he's been easy. Cause he is easy. so, adventure and having new things, that's really important to me. So there are 10 needs and they're covered in the.
the chemistry of lasting love. And then there's also like 40 or 50 ideas to date or things to do together that you've never thought of. You know how some days you run across something and you're like, well, I love, I would love to do that. And your spouse says, me too. And you're like, what? You would like that too? You know, you didn't even realize, but you know, you'd never crossed that bridge. And so finding your spouse's top five needs, I mean,
Connie Durham (01:07:19.816)
It's an easy place to start and it's called the Chemistry of Lasting Love and it is on theextraordinarymarriage.com. So what else would you want to say about this? Michael, you've done such a great job. You've shared your heart, you've shared your journey and there's nothing better than hearing someone's journey, like because they went through it. And when we go through something, the important thing is to be able to look back at all the steps and all the places
and objectively really evaluate and think to make sure that we don't go back on that path and decide on those goals and the direction that we want our marriage to be. Sometimes that's harder if you're the only one, but you can figure out things that help you along the way. So even one person, like Michael said earlier, it can make a 50 % difference, right?
Even one person makes a difference, but two people going together in God's timing at the right time, in the right place, with the right people is really awesome because I've witnessed that with y'all and the big turnaround. And aren't you impressed I didn't get emotional today?
Michael (01:08:39.537)
Yeah, I thought this was going to have some tears in it. yes. So things I've learned that I will say, communication, when you're getting in an argument, you're already both heated. Guess what? It's not about what you're arguing about. It's about the unresolved argument from potentially years ago.
Connie Durham (01:08:44.014)
Michael (01:09:04.207)
There are arguments you've had that you've stuffed down and now this is the result of the explosion of emotions that you that are coming to light. so deal with the little things while they're little things, because a pile of little things is not little anymore. So communication anytime you don't agree with something in a loving way, let it be known. Let, let your spouse know your heart. This is why I don't agree.
And you may be right, you may be wrong, but that's an opportunity for y'all to resolve the issue. Another great thing that I learned is that you and your spouse love each other dearly. Deep down inside at the root of your marriage, you got married because you wanted to spend the rest of your life with this person. So if that's not what you're feeling at the moment,
It's a lie that you are believing. You need to catch that lie. You need to snatch it out of your brain and you need to put the truth in there that you guys both love and care for each other. And you want your spouse to be happy. You want yourself to be happy. This is how it's done. You capture those lies. You speak truth into your life. You get truth from counselors, trusted friends, from the Bible and from God and
Without those things, I was believing lies and I was believing fears of the future that were not going to happen. And it was driving our marriage each other apart.
Connie Durham (01:10:48.014)
Wow, Michael, this has been so very powerful. I mean, this is probably one of the most powerful episodes that I've done. So I want to leave us with John 14, 27. Peace I leave with you. My peace I give you. I do not give you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. Thank you, Michael, so much for sharing your heart and your journey today.
Michael (01:11:16.88)
Thank you, Connie. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Connie Durham (01:11:23.544)
And that's
Michael (01:11:25.323)
Alright, good.
Connie Durham (01:11:26.892)
Okay, I have to say, I don't even know how long we went. I bet we went an hour. Let's do it.
Michael (01:11:32.221)
Yeah, I think we were over. Yeah.
Connie Durham (01:11:35.256)
That's okay because whoever's listening to this that needs this, they'll keep listening because it's a powerful, powerful message that Carecycle and you did fantastic with it. Don't tell Melissa, but you actually did better because she was a little stiffy.
Michael (01:11:47.159)
Good.
Michael (01:11:52.065)
Well, she told me, she said, you need to get on with mom because you are so much better at delivering this in a way that people, it's not confused.
