Connie Durham (04:40.186)
Small actions, consistent love, lasting connection. How would you like to have actionable tools to encourage deeper conversations and tackle challenges together, empowering your marriage to thrive? Join us today as we explore strategies that create better communication and lasting love in your marriage from the book Empowered to Love.
Welcome to the Extraordinary Marriage Podcast. I'm excited to have my daughter Melissa Burke join me today as we dive into some amazing communication techniques that can truly transform your relationship. We're gonna talk care cycle, heart talk, and work talk. Melissa and her husband attended a Windshaped Intensive Marriage Workshop just about a year and a half ago, and she's gonna be sharing from that intensive. So
So I want you to ask yourself: number one, how fully alive am I right now? What areas of my life feel vibrant and life-giving? And where do I feel drained, stuck, or disconnected? Number two, what do I need to thrive?
What practical steps, boundaries, habits, and supports will help me grow emotionally, spiritually, physically, and mentally? And number three, how will this help my marriage? How will caring for myself in these areas help me show up as the spouse God created me to be? Stay with me today, and you're gonna find those answers.
Connie Durham (06:42.854)
All right, so here we go. Welcome, Melissa.
Melissa (06:48.696)
Hi.
Connie Durham (06:49.542)
That's what you did on the last podcast. Okay, so Melissa was on an earlier podcast and she shared a little bit about her family, what she does, and all that. So we're gonna like go straight to our topic today because she and her husband, Michael, both attended this week long intensive at Windshape, and it literally just really changed their relationship. So, like I said before, we're gonna be looking at three areas. You know, you might wanna grab something and take notes even.
We're gonna just barely touch on the care cycle. and then we're gonna talk about the heart talk. This is something that you have to go through in order to really get out your inner thoughts, emotions, and that kind of thing. And then we're gonna do a little bit on the work talk. So I do hope you guys will stay with me today. So Melissa, one of the really important parts you always talked about was the care cycle and how important it is, you know, to do that care cycle.
And in let's see, it was episode 112, Empowered to Love, Stop the Blame Game. Actually, your husband Michael did that care cycle. So, listeners, as you're listening to this today, if you haven't heard that, go back to it so you can really understand what that care cycle is. But here's the overview on that. it uses C A R E care for yourself, emotionally and physical. A ask for care from your partner.
R receive care from your partner and then E express gat gratitude for the care that you received. All right, so Melissa, why did this make such a difference for you guys?
Melissa (08:32.824)
I think for us, it was realizing it wasn't necessarily our spouse that was the problem. It was our own hearts and where our hearts were. I think for me personally, going through the care cycle made me go through it's like different questions like what are the alarms in my body? What am I being triggered for right now? Like what's triggering me? and just simple questions like the feeling and the job to care for that's the accept. So, like on our card.
we actually got these really cool little cards that have all the the it's actually five A's that go along with care, which is what you read. And the words were aware, accept, allow, attend, and act. And so you literally would go through prayer and you would go through each step on that card to like care for your heart before you would actually have your heart talk. Because if you don't care for yourself first, there's no reason to even have a heart talk because you're not going to be open enough to talk about things.
Connie Durham (09:10.293)
yeah.
Melissa (09:32.014)
Especially when it's it's something your spouse is, it's like something important to your spouse.
Connie Durham (09:36.443)
Okay, so that I I remind everybody go back to that episode. I think it was 112 and listen to that complete one. I think it's just about an hour, but it's so worth it because it helps you understand really what that care cycle is and and the importance of doing that first. Because here's the thing. I don't know about you know everybody else, but if I am tired, I am triggered quicker. If I am hungry and I haven't eaten, I'm triggered quicker.
if my spouse is not cared up and they're they get loud or that tone of voice, you know, then I am triggered. And so when we can both be cared for C A R E like we just talked about, then we are able to move into a heart talk. Now, everybody doesn't know how to do this, do they, Melissa?
Melissa (10:30.06)
No. And it's taken a lot of work for us too to get to where we're at now.
Connie Durham (10:32.742)
And so
Connie Durham (10:37.156)
Yeah, it takes work and it takes both of you coming to that place where you are both ready to make that change, ready to grow, ready to figure it out. Because most people are absolutely stuck in that reactive cycle that we've talked about in the past episodes. They they're stuck in that reactive cycle, maybe because of trauma when they're a kid or
frustration as a teenager or bad choices as an adult. It could be drugs or alcohol or, you know, parents divorcing. I mean, there's a ton of different things that happen and have that have happened to people. And I've realized that so often people going into marriage, I mean, you're just in love. Yeah. Like each other so much. And that's all you're thinking about. And then you're living together.
And then your old baggage starts or your old trash starts to smell, right? And and you have no idea that that's what's causing those reactive cycles and you don't know how to move past it because you're not even stopping to figure out what's going on, right?
Melissa (11:40.758)
Okay.
Melissa (11:53.283)
Yeah.
Connie Durham (11:54.759)
All right, so that's gonna take us to the to the heart talk. This is like the last of the empowered marriage series. And so we've kind of concentrated this heart talk and this work talk together. And we really wanna spend most of our time on that today, but I wanted to just remind you about that reactive cycle, the old baggage we bring into our marriages, and the importance of doing that care cycle first. And like I said, this is all from the book, Empowered to Love.
Get it, read it. I think it would take a little more, you know, that yes, thank you. Good job. I think it would take a little more than just reading the book, maybe reading it a few times, or I mean they had people who use this book and empowered them for a better future. And the change has been like we just thank God, right? For the change because now you can enjoy your marriage and enjoy enjoy your family. All right, so here we go.
Melissa (12:29.807)
Ha ha ha
Connie Durham (12:54.276)
Hard talk. How would you describe a hard talk?
Melissa (12:58.84)
So the heart talk has three little letters. It's I, C, and U. And so the I stands for identify feelings. Okay. the C stands for care about it, and the U stands for understand it. And then like you're validating that person's feelings at the end after you go through the three little steps. yeah, so for us, the I, you know, there's a speaker and a listener in your heart talk. And the heart talk is.
Starting with the person who is coming to the spouse and they may have an issue with something or something really hurt their feelings, or it could be a number of things. And there's a speaker and they're the one speaking to the listener. And typically, like in our our intensive, we had to sort of check in. So you go to your spouse and you're like, Hey, is this a good time to talk? Or hey, can I check in with you? And like if your spouse is not in a good
place, that's when they would go and do a care cycle and make sure that their heart's ready to be open to speak to their spouse about whatever it is that they want to speak about. that's the most important thing is when you're starting your heart talk to make sure your heart's ready to to talk and be open to listening.
Connie Durham (14:12.24)
I like that because often your dad often your dad asks me questions or wants me to help make decisions on things at, you know, nine or ten o'clock at night. And I'm like, I'm tired. I I can't even like I can't make those decisions now. And I always feel bad because I have to say, I can't do that right now. Because he's like on all the time and he's able to make and think all the time, but I'm not so
You know, people are different in how they're wired and how they're able to do like I'm I'm a morning person into an afternoon and then I have a slump, you know. So I think that has a lot to do with the care cycle. So choosing when you're going to talk and making sure that it's good for both of you. And if not, you have to say, Okay, well, when can we do this? And actually, if they're not cared up, you might not even ask, when can we do this?
Melissa (15:05.73)
Yeah.
Connie Durham (15:06.214)
Just say, okay, let's find a better time and maybe not even say anything, right? Yeah. Cause when we're not cared up, you know, we're a little shorter on our patience. All right. So how do you identify specific feelings or emotions that you want to discuss? How do you figure out what do I need to discuss? What do we need to talk about?
Melissa (15:11.384)
Yeah, yeah.
Melissa (15:28.466)
well it's mainly like different things that arise. Like I know me and Michael sometimes we don't agree on like different things with the kids. And so we we sit down and we have a hard talk about, hey, like I didn't agree with this or I think I would do this differently next time, like those kinds of things. So it's I don't know if it necessarily has to do with like all feelings, but also just being on the same page parenting. That's our biggest thing.
Connie Durham (15:55.879)
Well, you know, I think it's also it's kind of like when you're cleaning house. what's the most important thing I do today? When you're cleaning your house, what's the most important thing? When you're headed to work, what's the most important thing? So would you agree probably that when we try to attack everything at once, like it it kind of blows up, it's important to choose. What's the one thing that we really need to talk about today?
Melissa (16:20.182)
One. Yeah. Yeah. And typically when we have a hard talk, it is usually about one thing. Sometimes it morphs into something that has to do with that. But typically it's like one topic. Like, actually, I'm really bad about chasing rabbits. And so Michael's like, okay, focus. Like we're talking about this thing right now. And so I have to really focus in on that one thing we're talking about and not jump here and there.
Connie Durham (16:45.998)
Okay, so some of us have a tendency for that, but I think everybody has that these these days where you pop onto your phone to do something to look at one text and then there's four texts and then it there's a link and it leads you somewhere. Now you're on social media and there you go, like, you know, an hour and a half later, you're like, Yeah. So I think in life we have so many choices and in so many areas of what to watch, you know, things coming at us like buy me, come see this, do this.
I think that that causes to be even more spread out and unable sometimes to stop and focus on one thing or just to talk, turn everything off, move the phones away, right? All right. So why is it important to use I statements during a heart talk?
Melissa (17:22.722)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa (17:28.707)
Yeah.
Melissa (17:36.344)
Well, it's important it's important to identify your feelings and how you're feeling.
Connie Durham (17:40.932)
I was gonna say I was gonna say you did this and you did that and boy that always gets a really good response, doesn't it?
Melissa (17:48.852)
no. No. Well. So with the eye, you're identifying your feelings and your emotions. You're letting your you are okay. So I was wrong about the earlier statement. Like you are identifying your feelings, but you're you're letting them know that this bothered you or that you would like to do things differently next time. So you're you're going through and figuring out how can we fix this together? Like this is how I feel.
Connie Durham (17:51.334)
Go ahead, share share.
Melissa (18:17.14)
And the most important thing with the heart talk is that the other person's listening. in our beginning of our marriage, neither one of us was really good at listening. Like, I mean, I would interrupt him and he would interrupt me. And there was no consistent pattern of getting all your feelings and like your what you need to say out. And so now we are we're not perfect, but we are better at like catching ourselves.
And not interrupting the other person and trying to listen to everything that they have to say. and then say, okay, so what I hear you saying is da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And so that was something that really made a difference for us is you know, stopping and listening, most important thing. and then letting that person know, this is what you, this is what I'm hearing you're saying. And then you sort of like reiterate what they just said to you in a shorter, you know.
Connie Durham (18:53.466)
Hmm.
Melissa (19:14.072)
shorter amount of time, is and then you say, you know, is this is am I correct on this? Like is this what I'm hearing? And then the person will say, Yes, that's what I'm saying. So both people are communicating, but more listening and speaking, like, you know what I'm saying? Like one person's doing more listening. Yeah.
Connie Durham (19:33.103)
Right, because every person wants to be heard and appreciated, right? And if your spouse is not listening or you're not listening to your spouse, then they feel unheard, they feel frustrated because you they don't believe you're listening. So, like Melissa said, whenever you repeat back to them. So here's what I hear you saying. Because I have to tell you that even though my husband and I get along so very good, often
Melissa (19:37.402)
Mm-hmm.
Connie Durham (20:02.224)
I think that he tries to analyze too much these days. And so he tries to really twist or think. And I'm just like straightforward. You know, so what I'm saying is what you're getting, you know. And he's trying to analyze and think. And so it's important to repeat that back. So what I'm hearing you say, because he does that a little bit now. And when he does, I'm like, no, that's not what I said. Let's try this again, right? But
With the I statements, I think it's kind of how I sarcastically started that. It's like often whenever we're fussing about something, people people often say, Well, you know, you did this and you did that, and you know, here comes that finger, even, right? You, you, you. And so now I immediately we're our defenses come up. Now we're defensive. Now we're not listening. So when you start with I statements, well, you know what? I've been feeling this way and I, right?
Melissa (20:41.39)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa (20:47.8)
Yeah.
Melissa (20:56.792)
Yes, yes, yes. no, and I actually think I jumped down to the other two letters too while I was saying all that.
Connie Durham (20:56.996)
Anything to add to that?
Connie Durham (21:05.19)
It's okay though, hear it twice, 'cause you know what? if this really speaks to your heart, then you probably need to listen to this two or three times and even take notes, like I said, so that you can because we know we we hear the just of things when we first listen and we have to dig in deep to really find our way.
Connie Durham (21:30.406)
All right, Melissa, you disappeared if you could hear me. Hi.
Melissa (21:34.702)
Sorry, it's like yeah.
Connie Durham (21:36.75)
Okay, so that's twenty one minutes in and I can edit it. Let me just put a edit. Because if I don't, I'll r 21 minutes.
Melissa (21:46.008)
Well, my phone's on Do Not Disturb, but that spam call came through.
Connie Durham (21:50.449)
I know, it ain't great. But that's okay because I could edit it and I just have to remember or I forget and I'll put this in and people will start laughing. Yeah. I'll be like, I'm sure I put a few oops in before and and I'm like, well, good enough, whatever. All right, start again. Let's see. So I completed my statement there. Let's see.
Connie Durham (22:17.658)
All right, so this is really important. How do you communicate your feelings clearly during a heart talk? You know, sometimes one person's not one, you know, we're cared up. We've we talked about how we both gotta listen. How do you communicate that?
Melissa (22:35.31)
Are you asking me?
Okay, so when you are the speaker, some of the things they taught us was that you need to soften the way you're speaking, you need to slow the way you're speaking, and you need to speak in shorter sentences. You don't need to give a five-minute speech because it is impossible for the other person listening to get all what you just said in and be able to speak it back to you. This is what I'm hearing. Like, so they they taught us to do soft, slow, and short.
And then the listener is the summarizer. So that's the short is the most important part there, I think. And because, you know, for me, I can only listen to so much at a time and really be able to take in what you're saying. And if you're telling me too much, I only heard the beginning and the end of what you said.
Connie Durham (23:22.532)
with most people. Yeah, we can only take in so much and so that's with as with most people. So also maybe not bringing up well, we already talked about doing one thing at a time, but not bringing up old grievances or it's really sticking to one area too, so we just don't get all over the place.
Melissa (23:24.301)
Yeah.
Melissa (23:45.41)
Yeah. Well, one important thing is like, I know Michael talked about it in the podcast that he did with you about getting in the other person's yard. And like you don't want to get in their yard. You want to stay in your yard. That means you're focusing on the way you're feeling. You're not pointing fingers at him saying, you did this like you just said earlier. So if you're staying on your side of the yard and focusing on what you're dealing with, then you'll you'll have a much better heart talk in the end.
Connie Durham (24:15.066)
And that's because we're talking about our our heart. And then and it's like you said before, there's like the the the talking spot and the listening spot. And so when you're talking about your heart, you're talking about I have this problem, I have this, this hurts me, this is how I feel, and the other person's listening, and then whenever it's changed over, now you're listening and you're and they're
doing their heart talk and telling you how they feel about it, right? Now some people are better at at knowing their feelings and expressing their feelings and talking about their feelings. And some people are so very closed. I'll tell a quick thing that I just story I just thought about. Like when your dad and I were dating, it got where I was frustrated because we weren't going out anymore. We we
We, you know, gotten comfortable. He always came to my house, or I was at his house. And you know, we didn't go on those dates, you know, and do fun things anymore. And so I had told my mom, I said, you know, mother, I really like Jeff, but you know, we never go do anything anymore. And so instead of telling him how I felt, I was gonna break up with him. And my mother liked him good enough that she she didn't even say anything to me at all, but she told him.
When he came over. So when he came in, she said, Jeff, or she did tell him, Jeff, Connie has something she wants to talk to you about. I mean, I can still remember the feelings that came up. And I never talked back to my mom. I was respectful and all that, but I thought, How dare you know do that to me? Because it put me on a spot where I was not comfortable sharing my feelings. So I just didn't know how to. And it put me on the spot.
Melissa (25:49.39)
Ha ha ha ha.
Melissa (26:07.416)
Yeah.
Connie Durham (26:10.574)
He then put me on the spot and demanded, I never saw that side of him, demanded I tell him what she was talking about. Yeah. And I always say that once I started to share my feelings, yeah, he couldn't shut me up after that. Once the door was open, here it came. Anyway, so sometimes we're not some people are not able to share their feelings where somebody else shares them. And often we share them.
Melissa (26:25.237)
Ha ha ha.
Connie Durham (26:36.814)
If we don't share them straightforward like we're talking about today, we share them through anger or hostility or closing up and not talking at all, right? And and that's what we're avoiding here. So how do you seek understanding from your partner after sharing your feelings?
Melissa (26:46.7)
Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa (26:57.282)
the partner, like I had said earlier, the partner goes through and says, so what I hear you saying is, and they sort of like summarize what you said, and you say, if that's correct, if they heard you correctly as the speaker, you you go through and you're like, Yes, that's that's what I'm feeling right now, or that's you're correct. You heard that correctly, that kind of thing, to make sure each person understands where the other's coming from.
Connie Durham (27:24.262)
Super. So what does active listening look like during a heart talk? Well, that's kinda you're just saying that, aren't you?
Melissa (27:32.13)
Yeah, you're actively listening. You're being quiet. You're not interrupting. You're not adding your two cents. You're just sitting there and listening, which is really hard for me personally, because I'm like, what? Like my higher personality. I'm like, no, like yes. And so I have I have a really hard time sitting and just being quiet. But at least I I know that I bought myself.
Connie Durham (27:45.648)
What somehow?
Connie Durham (27:55.025)
That's right. It is important to be self-reflective. And really all of this is talking about being able to be self-reflected and understand yourself better. And now that's something I teach in rediscover your spouse is when you go through that course, I have it online. When you go through that course, you start to understand more about yourself. Something that I learned through those that is that I'm I am very talkative and and that.
It's great to be talkative and be able to talk to everybody, but also to be able to stop and listen because a conversation is not one person talking all the time. So, and in that class, literally, you learn a lot about yourself because I look at me first, because you know, I can't have my finger pointing at him. I look at me first. And then after you've learned about yourself and rediscover your spouse, then you start to understand
This is why my spouse acts this way or responds this way. You start to understand those things. And once you understand each other better, then you can communicate better and you can leave space in your relationship. I think that's a big one. All right. So why express gratitude? Why is that important after a heart talk?
Melissa (29:05.026)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa (29:12.866)
Because that means you truly care about your spouse and you care about what they're saying. that you listened and that you hear them. And I think that makes the the speaker feel loved, which is really important in a relationship and respected.
Connie Durham (29:28.538)
And I can imagine just the absolute thankfulness if you're having challenges in your marriage, the thankfulness that your spouse has listened to you and that they have given you eyes and they've responded back to you. This is what I'm hearing. And so you know that they're actually listening. And it's like, it's like if you're walking up a giant k staircase and it's going one step at a time.
Whenever you start doing this and you start talking and listening and spending more time together, you know, it's not overnight. It's one step at a time and then another step and then another step. One challenge at a time. Because when you start talking about too many things that are frustrating you, then your spouse is like, gee, is there anything you like? Tell me about that. And people focus so often on the frustrations rather than what is good.
Melissa (30:02.014)
Yeah.
Melissa (30:16.237)
Yeah.
Melissa (30:21.614)
Well, and I think a lot of people end up when they go to into a hard talk for the first time, they sort of blow it all out. And then your spouse is like overwhelmed. So that's where the one thing at a time, like pick the most important thing you want to speak about first and talk about that first. Yeah. It's very important.
Connie Durham (30:38.49)
I love it. So how often do you schedule a ha a follow up sorry? How often do you schedule follow up heart talks and why is that important?
Melissa (30:49.62)
honestly, we probably don't schedule the follow-up part talks. we do a lot of our talking at night, like when the kids are in bed and like we're sitting on the couch, usually watching TV or something together. typically that's where we open up and like talk to each other more. Now, after the intensive, we are probably better about, hey, let's go back and revisit this, you know, make sure we're both on the same page here. We did that more then than we do than we do now. We probably naturally do it now more.
than like saying, Hey, let's have a heart talk. We just sit down and talk, which is sort of the same thing. So
Connie Durham (31:24.944)
Which is perfect. It's how it's supposed to be. And what I hear you saying is that y'all worked on this and followed the course, you know, until it became your own and now you naturally communicate this way. And can you just tell me like in a sentence or two, what's the difference between yesteryear and this year?
Melissa (31:40.397)
Yes.
Melissa (31:47.298)
Ha ha ha. man, both of us like can calmly talk to each other without getting upset. With mainly the thing for us or for me personally is not taking it personally. He is sharing his heart with me. It's not always me. He's like, he's not necessarily attacking me. He is sharing his heart with me about how he feels and
Over the past year and a half, I have learned to stop taking everything so personally. And you know, this is his feelings. Like he's not necessarily mad at me right now. He's just sharing how he's feeling about something that happened. and I think that's the taking so much emotion off the table and realizing when he's speaking to me and I'm the listener, that he is sharing his heart with me and that I don't need to take things personally.
That I think that's the most important thing that I've gotten out of the past year and a half.
Connie Durham (32:45.734)
Perfect. Well, as we looked at the care cycle as we started today, we spoke about the reactive cycle. Now this was the heart talk. This is getting it out. So Melissa, what's the difference as we move into the work talk? And you can't do the work talk before you do the heart talk. But and we all do that. We're all doing the work talk and never did the heart talk, right? But what is the difference between a heart talk, what we've just been talking about, and what we're going into, which is the work talk.
Melissa (33:14.702)
So the hard talk is more on the lines of sharing your heart with your partner, like things that are on your mind, things that have been bothering you, things to clear the air, you know, because you might be holding a grudge against your partner and don't even realize you're doing it because your heart's not in the right place. now the work talk is going through and labeling out different things that you want to work towards. So like if I can't even give you an example, let's see.
Like if you're wanting to take a vacation to Hawaii or if you're wanting to take a vacation to Italy or something, these are just really big examples, but you would do a work talk on the pros and cons of both of those places, like how it's going to affect your family, like how much it's gonna cost. Like that's what the work talk's for. it can also be working out a problem in your household, like that kind of work talk. But a work talk can be all kinds of things. It doesn't necessarily have to just be
feelings and emotions of what's been going on in your household. It can also be big decisions in your life.
Connie Durham (34:20.078)
Okay, I like that. And so the hard talk is first and then comes the word talk. And I can say in my marriage, because I am so good at talking, we have talked about everything. And sometimes when we're right in the car and it's quiet, and you know, he's like, What are you thinking? And and sometimes I say, you know, can't you start the conversation? What are you thinking? You know. always wants to know what I'm thinking, but you know.
Once you're cared up and your heart is healing and your heart is not exploding on your spouse or your heart is not causing you to go stay in your room because you don't want to talk about this or that, then you can work on so many different things in life and enjoy really enjoy life. So I'm I'm gonna give you let's see. So how would you define, first of all, the work talk and its purpose in the relationship?
Melissa (35:15.242)
Okay. Yeah. So the work talk went on whatever discussion you're having, whatever you're trying to work out together, the number one thing is that there's a no it's a no loser policy. Like there are no losers. This is not a there's not one person winning over the other person. You are equals here, you are talking about something important between the both of you. do you mean to go through the different steps or do go one thing at a time?
Connie Durham (35:38.938)
Well, I'm gonna go I'm gonna give the steps in a minute and then we're gonna do the like six questions. So second thing is can you share a personal story that illustrates the importance of the work talk in your relationship? And I you know, we don't wanna get too personal. You
Melissa (35:57.463)
No, okay, I can give you example. So right before our our intensive last year, our house was having to have like 1100 square feet of the flooring completely ripped out. And it was like complete chaos in our life last year. actually, by the grace of God, like in his will in our marriage, like he he brought us through all of that. But going through important stages of like
what we want to do for our our house. And then we realized our kitchen had to be ripped out and our whole kitchen had to be redone while we were at the intensive last year. Yeah. So it was crazy. but going through and deciding, okay, we want to have a win-win at the end of this. So like we were deciding on like different things for the kitchen and like simple things like which sink to get and which appliances to get and what cabinets to get, that can all be part of a work talk. And so
We probably didn't do like all the stages of this because we're in the middle of all the intensive learning about this, but we probably did some of those stages of the work talk to decide on, you know, what contract are we going to use? Like, you know, when are they going to be here? Like all of that was part of the work talk.
Connie Durham (37:07.344)
So in the same way, if it's a personal and private kind of work talk, you're talking, you just you just put everything out on your heart and how your emotions and and so your work talk also could be so how can we, what are our goals? How can we do this better? How can we make this work for both of us? What do you want? What do I want? I mean, would that also be like a work talk? Like the first one that maybe you would have as you're starting this. And so you can see how a work talk is used.
all the rest of your life and the hard talk but yeah all right so all right so I'm gonna read you eight things that go along with this work talk and then we're gonna they're gonna talk about them in different ways so number one you want to set clear goals in your work talk you want to set clear goals you want to approach the conflicts if it's about conflict together you want to approach it together you want to create an actionable steps how can we do this
Melissa (37:39.458)
Yes. Yeah.
Connie Durham (38:06.938)
And we can't go into everything today, you know, so that I'm just giving you the outline. You want to choose the right time and place to have this worktop. You're cared up, you had your heart talk, now you're gonna do your work talk. You wanna use I statements because when you use you did this, you did this, you know, you statements, you know, the person's automatically defensive. So you wanna say, always use the word I instead. you wanna listen actively.
Mm-hmm. We talked about that a couple of times. Listening actively. you got, you know, I do I have your eyes? And and empathetically, and a lot of times couples miss this part of empathetically, because some personality styles are more empathetic than others. set a time limit, you know, so you're not doing it for four hours, right? Set a time limit and be patient and be persistent. Just like I spoke about.
my mom, you know, outing me, you know, that I was gonna break up with my now husband of 47 years. she outed me and I had to, I had to talk about it, or I certainly wouldn't have, because we didn't know this. So see, we worked through that. This is how I feel. And a work talk really, you know, as we did that. I say here's the questions, Melissa. How do you set clear goals for your relationship during that walk work talk?
Melissa (39:32.076)
okay, so that's where the the list of communication types that they gave us come in handy. I had already talked about the no loser policy. you know, you make number two is like make sure you have your heart talk. We've already gone through that. number three, a lot of couples don't pray together. And number three is praying for unity and that God will be able to help you guys communicate clearly with each other without fighting over.
Connie Durham (39:50.83)
Whoa.
Melissa (40:01.112)
the circumstance of what you're talking about. I think that's almost the most important thing is praying together before you start this work talk.
Connie Durham (40:09.06)
Okay, so I I'm gonna add to that. Like, I prayed for this podcast. And it's like, because it's so important to the people that are listening because this is a big chunk of what divides you and your spouse. And when you pray together, then you're humbled together, right? And you're open to God's word and listening and acting like a civil person when you pray together. And so some people, you know, out there might not, you're like,
Melissa (40:28.045)
Yes.
Connie Durham (40:38.342)
prayer, like I don't think so. We never even do that. You know, keep following us, keep going through this. But this is a key place where Christian people are people that pray humble themselves instead of putting themselves over the other person. I would say that's a a big part of that. So clear goals for relationship during a a a work talk. okay, did you have something else on that that you were
Melissa (40:43.79)
Yeah.
Melissa (41:05.9)
Yeah, there's like seven different steps. Yeah. Okay. So no, so we already talked about praying for unity. the number four is brainstorming options. So, like, hey, what are we going talk about today? Like, what is this work talking to be about? And you spend five or six minutes brainstorming some different options that you're both interested in for this work talk. the fifth one is evaluate. Okay, let's go through and like mark out these things. Like, okay, I don't want to talk about these now. Let's go ahead and do this one.
Connie Durham (41:07.93)
Okay, go ahead go ahead and give those steps.
Melissa (41:34.334)
for today's work talk. I think this is most important. and then number six is the choose one. Yep. And then seven is revisit if necessary. So if you can't come to a win-win at the end of your work talk, then you either need to come back to it when you're because sometimes they can get heated. And so coming back to it later on when you're both calming down and going through all those steps again and figuring out.
where everybody can be and have a win-win at the very end of it.
Connie Durham (42:04.994)
Know sometimes I think we also have to say, is it me? You know, we are always looking at the other person, but sometimes we have to ask, is it me? unforgiveness can be a place that causes a lot of hostility and a lot of problems. and there I should know the episode, but it is the formula for forgiveness that is also taken from this same book. and it goes
Through the steps. I think if you read that chapter enough, you could get it and understand. There again, prayer is a part of that. Because whenever you cannot forgive somebody, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. And when you drink the poison of unforgiveness.
Because I mean, you're having this problem for some reason. You're you're needing that hard talk, the care cycle, the hard talk, the work talk. You're needing it for a reason. And you're probably gonna need to forgive each other for something. And sometimes when we're forgiving and we really talk about what it is, sometimes it's not even as big as we think it is. You know, we've made a molehill. We made we made a big mountain out of something that was just a little molehill, right?
Melissa (43:07.66)
Yeah. I know people.
Melissa (43:13.836)
Yeah, I know people in my life now that have not forgiven people. and it literally makes you physically ill over time. Yeah.
Connie Durham (43:22.758)
That's right. That's right. Okay, so how do you approach conflicts together during a work talk? So we're nose-to-nose. How do we approach that? What do we do?
Melissa (43:36.77)
Well, I mean, obviously, like you if you both had your heart talk going into it, you should both be able to hear and listen and you know, be the speaker and the listener and the heart and the work talk. But if you go through the stages and, you know, you've already prayed for everything and you've brainstormed, yeah, if you can't come to an agreement and you can't have a win-win, like I said earlier.
Melissa (44:13.462)
It yeah, sorry.
Connie Durham (44:14.34)
It's okay. And it's okay. So I'm gonna jot it down. We are at forty four minutes.
Melissa (44:20.514)
I don't see how they can get through when it's on do not disturb.
Connie Durham (44:24.966)
I don't know. It's a it's a pain with the phone, but it's okay because I could edit. Used to could edit, but I can now. So do you know what you were saying? Let's see. Why is it important to choose the right time and place for a work talk?
Melissa (44:32.532)
okay.
Melissa (44:38.222)
Okay, so right time and place is very important for a work talk because you both want to make sure that your brain is active, that you have been fed, that you're you slept well, that emotionally you are good to go to talk about this important thing in your in your marriage. and I really think the brainstorming helps too, because you know, if you can go through and make a list of okay, these are all the things that are important to both of us.
And then going through and picking out the most important thing. it it's important. And then go back and look at those other things that are important to you guys too, eventually at some point.
Connie Durham (45:16.514)
And that's probably the biggest peop mistake that people make is starting into a talk of any sort that confronts any topic and and they're tired or unready to do that, right? I would say that's that's probably the worst spot. You know, sometimes it's like you just came in from work or y you know, you're at home, you've been with the kids all day long and you've run around, you've made dinner, you've done the cleaning and washing and
Melissa (45:32.365)
Mm-hmm.
Connie Durham (45:46.224)
groceries and all the different stuff and and you need a break. So yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest things there. So what does active and empathetic listening look like during that work talk?
Melissa (45:58.83)
Well, it's sort of like with the heart talk. It's like when one person is the speaker and they're speaking their mind about what you're talking about, you're actively listening. You're not interrupting them. you let them speak their mind. And then when it's your turn to talk, you speak too. I think a lot of couples, we get excited about something and are are emotionally involved, I guess you could say, and then we end up interrupting the spouse a lot. I know for my personality, like I said earlier, I
Tend to interrupt a little bit because I like think of something and then I just say it out loud, but I need to stop and like really listen to what my husband is saying.
Connie Durham (46:37.542)
Well, maybe for me and you, Melissa, we might need to like have like a paper pad below us. And so we jot down a question that we have because in a few minutes we'll forget it. Jot down that question. So all right. So that last question was what does active and empathetic listening look like during a work talk? So making sure that we have turned on the empathy, you know. I always like to say, put yourself in the other person's place.
Melissa (46:45.838)
Hey, that's a good idea.
Connie Durham (47:07.382)
If I put myself in the other person's shoes, like the person coming in from a full day at work, what all went on at work? They're probably tired, they're hungry, maybe they had to deal with a lot of stressful different stuff. so putting myself in their shoes, and actually I've learned to do that in most everything. And it also helps me have empathy and love on a person that I I'm not even know anything about them, but when I put
myself in their shoes and look at what was their life like, what was their day like? What's going on for them? Then you can quickly understand whether it's a good time to talk, you know, or not. So all right. So why do you set a time limit for your work talk discussions?
Melissa (47:51.726)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa (48:00.408)
my gosh. I mean, honestly, if it was more than an hour, I would just my brain would shut down. Like I wouldn't be able to hear anything else that Michael was saying. Like, and like honestly, I think 30 minutes is probably a good amount of time for a work talk, unless it's like a really huge issue. I think 30 minutes, you should be able to get through your work talk with all the different steps that you have to go through and be able to accomplish what you need to at the end.
Connie Durham (48:28.826)
And honestly, probably when you first start practicing this, you know, that heart talk is maybe gonna be longer because there's a lot, a lot of issues. but staying connected, another thing is always spending 15 hours a week together as a couple. Because even at this stage in my marriage, we've had we've had several really busy weeks in the last couple of weeks, and I start to feel like disconnected.
If I haven't had that time to to maybe sit down and watch TV, to chat after dinner, talking and doing things together keeps it it just keeps that relationship. You know, if you had a a best girlfriend or guys had a best guy friend and and you never spend time together and you never talk together, you never share ideas, or you don't really share your real heart and your real soul or the things that are important to you.
Then there's always that wedge between you. I mean, like, are you just like roommates, you know, rather than lovers? So you know, there's a wedge between you. So there's a great importance to sharing your life, sharing your thoughts, sharing your emotions, really listening together. Whenever somebody listens, it shows you that they care. Have have you ever been like where you're talking to somebody and like,
They're looking at you and then they just go off the other way. I'm sure I've done it too. Please forgive me. But it's like where they're distracted and they just go off the other way and you're like
Melissa (50:05.858)
Yeah, that was me with kids, little kids, remember? You try to be talking to me and like they would like grab my hand or like talk to me while I was talking to you and then I'd be distracted.
Connie Durham (50:15.492)
I know it's learning to whether it's children or whatever is hold of the finger. Hold on one second. I mean, we have to purposely not be distracted because when we are talking to somebody, I mean, for some of us it's more of a challenge than others, right? But once you're aware of something, at least you can work on it or you can kindly, kindly remind each other, you know, hey, I I need to know you're listening.
And it's hard when you have children or their phone rings or dings. Hey, that's a whole nother area. Ding, ding, ding on your phone constantly distracting you from you know, that doesn't help people. It's like turn your phone down, put it somewhere else when you're having dinner, put it somewhere else when you're having your conversations and make each other number one instead of allowing interferences to constantly take over.
your communication and and your life because you have to be on purpose. You have to be on purpose. If you want to eat well, you have to be on purpose. You have to buy the right food, planned for the right food. And if you don't, then you're not going to eat well because you're just going to grab whatever when you're hungry. And it's the same thing with your marriage. You you have to be on purpose. If you want something better, you have to be on purpose and then you got to figure out how to find it, get it, figure it out, right?
Melissa (51:15.438)
Mm-hmm.
Connie Durham (51:38.734)
All right. So recapping the care cycle, give me a couple of lines on what you would how you'd describe the care cycle.
Melissa (51:48.438)
So the care cycle is taking care of your heart. you want to be aware, you want to accept, allow, attend, and act. And if you didn't get that before, they can go back to the earlier podcast and listen to that. But you're caring for your heart. You're making sure that you're in a good place to have a heart talk. like usually it's it's prayer. It you're praying to God that, hey, like.
Open my heart, help me not to let things trigger me, you know, or if something's bothering you, you pray about it at that moment to care for your heart.
Connie Durham (52:20.678)
Okay, it was E emotionally, spiritually, E S, I wanna say P I think. Emotionally, spiritually.
no. I have said that in the last podcast I said that over and over again. Basically it is emotionally, spiritually, physically, and mentally. Yay, I got it. Emotionally, spiritually. Help me again.
Melissa (52:33.306)
I I don't know what the E's are.
Melissa (52:45.475)
there you go. Okay.
Melissa (52:52.366)
Spiritually. No. you said that. Emotionally, spiritually, physically and mentally.
Connie Durham (52:56.72)
There we go. Emotionally, spiritually, physically, and mentally. That is also your care cycle. Making sure you ate, you rested, you've exercised, got some sunlight, spent some time with yourself, just you know, at peace or whatever. All right. So, how about the heart talk? Just a couple of lines on that. A heart talk is.
Melissa (53:20.142)
Heart Talk is I see you. And it's making sure that you are listening to your spouse. as the speaker, you want to speak softly, slowly, and short sentences, not too much. Yeah.
Connie Durham (53:34.042)
And what else do we think of when we hear the word ICU? We think about the intensive care unit at the hospital. And and maybe you don't want your marriage on in in the ICU, right? It helps people remember it. All right, and then the work talk and the importance of the work talk.
Melissa (53:39.118)
Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa (53:46.606)
Yeah.
Melissa (53:52.962)
Yeah, the work talk, you're you're going through and you're making sure that there's a no loser policy. you want to aim for a win win at the end of the work talk. and so when you're going through, you're deciding what is the most important thing to talk about right now. You're talking about one thing at a time to get the work talk done. Yeah.
Connie Durham (54:11.686)
And I I should be able to tell you, but there is a Bible verse in Galatians and it talks about patience and all the things that love are. I should be able to quote that for you. In fact, I'll put that in the notes on YouTube and in the podcast.
Melissa (54:27.532)
And that love is patient. Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast. I can't really ask it. Yeah.
Connie Durham (54:33.646)
Yeah, all those different things. You know, I think that Bible verse would be a great verse to read before you start, you know, with your heart talk. Maybe read it out loud together because it reminds us of you know what God has for us and all things that are good. So many times in this life during these days, we pay attention to all the things that are bad and
Melissa (54:43.543)
Well
Connie Durham (55:01.262)
It's very, very disheartening. So in Galatians. So I'll put that in the notes because it's one of my favorite vo verses. And honest to goodness, when you focus on what you love about your spouse, you know, why you married them, what you enjoy doing together, you find date nights to do together, things you like to spend time together doing and
there again, I have the chemistry of lasting love. There's a little guide that helps you figure out what you both need most from each other. And there is 50 different things that maybe you've never thought of about 40 of them, that maybe there's a few in there that you're like, you both like them. You go through the checklist and you find out what you both like and pursue some things together so you can continue to spend time. It's like dating.
All your life. That's what I like to do. And I've been married 47 years. Doesn't seem like it. I'm just 25. Anyway. That's right. It's a long time, isn't it? I remember going through the stages. So thank you, Melissa. Go ahead.
Melissa (55:58.478)
I've been I've been married seventeen years. Yeah.
You know, I'll tell you something. So I just went to my twenty fifth reunion and a couple of the people that I really didn't talk to in high school were just amazed that we had been married for 17 years. And I told them I was like, it takes work. I was like, you can't go into a marriage thinking, this is not easy. I'm just gonna give up. You have to put the work in. And that's what that's what this this book is definitely helped our marriage a lot.
Connie Durham (56:34.918)
And you I don't think people, if you're looking at premarital things, if people really look in there and they work to learn some things about about each other, like my rediscover your spouse before they get married, those kind of things would really help. But so often, you know, we're not paying attention to stuff until we really need it. Yeah. So thank you for being with me today. I thank you for your time. I know that this is gonna make a big difference for somebody out there. All right.
Melissa (56:55.436)
Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa (57:04.44)
Yes. Hey, and the number one thing, number one thing I want people to take away from this is that if you are not praying with your spouse, you need to start today. Cause it's going to change, change your marriage if you start praying with your spouse consistently.
Connie Durham (57:05.102)
All right.
Connie Durham (57:13.627)
Split.
Connie Durham (57:18.822)
Prayer can change your life. Even if only one person is seeking answers, prayer can change your life. Thank you. See y'all next time.
